what's the tangst on our class pres being suspended???
Anonymous
04:43:00 PM
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what's the tangst on our class pres being suspended???
Anonymous
04:43:00 PM
Published by
Hannah
Tags: cheating, Enloe legends, infamous post, politics, popular post, why?
63 comments:
Yeah, I had heard about this. Gossip plz.
From what I understand from talking to C and D:
B got suspended unjustly for misunderstanding Nealy's instructions. Basically, Nealy was a douche, and told B and the other girls that he just wanted to understand what happened, but wasn't going to go to the administrators.
Long story short, he did. The administrators took pity on the girls, but still suspended them each for a day.
Now, it seems that B has been removed from from the presidency.
Basically, Mr. Nealy has singlehandedly ruined these peoples' lives. He's such a prick.
can't pretend i'm not happy b/c i hate b and she was the worst prez
I don't know who is at fault here (Nealy or girls), but the fact of the matter is that B genuinely enjoys being class president. She coordinates events with heart and is always more excited about them then anyone else, and her enthusiasm is infectious. Even if you don't like her personally, she is a great president.
With regards to the whole "cheating" issue. If she didn't cheat, then obviously this is all bs and administration is being stupid. Even if she did cheat though, taking away her presidency is a stupid decision. How many people at Enloe cheat everyday? A whole lot more then just these girls. They got their consequence with the suspension, and when B has a clean record, is obviously a good student academically (rank, gpa, grades all tell you that), then why should her presidency be taken away? Most people do stuco for resume's, B actually wants to do it for more then that.
No I disagree anonymous 3. If B cheated, or was convicted for cheating (even if she didn't actually do it), she should not be allowed to keep her presidency. We can't reward cheaters.
I second that, Tinted. I also would like to harp on the point anon3 made about good grades/gpa/etc being a measure of integrity and performance. If anything, those could be construed exactly the opposite, as motivation for a cheater who is desparate to maintain a particular image under stress.
And the opinion that "more than these girls" cheat every day is a deplorable excuse. Anybody who resorts to that logic should be ashamed of their lack of scruples. The fact that another person/group avoided detection and retribution does not warrant a lack of punishment for those who do face consequences for their actions.
i don't understand how any of you can think that what happened to B is justified. like, what happened was just a series of unfortunate events. I don't think that she, in any way meant to cheat, what happened was just a misunderstandinf of directions. How is it right for her to be punished soooo severely for just bad luck? i'm sure that everyone has misunderstood some small detail at some point, or just has had plain bad luck lead them into trouble. it is unrreal that some people think this is deserved. if i can quote (sorta) from legally blonde, there's like the idea of mensrea or something, which means (it elle woods got it right) that there can't be any crime w/out a malicious intent.
cheating is a big problem in this school, but it seems like the administration is just tryin gto make an example of the poor girl. i love my baby B too death, and i strongly support her, and i should hope that everyone does too.
Can somebody please explain this "misunderstanding of directions"? I've heard the phrase used at least four times in connection with this event, but I have no clue what these people are talking about. What directions, and for what assignment? What happened?
so apparently, they got some assignment in human geo., and Mr. neily said, i think, i'm not positive, that people could research together, but they should still write their own answers, and the girls ended up like, researching together and writing their answers together,
something like that, i'm not entirely sure
Exactly. Basically, the whole thing was definitely a misunderstanding: something that the teacher/administration would not accept. For those who do think she cheated or is "justified" of her punishment, I guess you do not know the whole situation. You look at it as her "cheating", but since the incident has gotten way out of hand, it appears worse that what it was supposed to be.
Such a rude, impulsive, and whiny teacher did not let them have a say in explaining what happened when confronted at first. Therefore, he blantantly accused the girls of cheating without hearing their side of the story. He did say he would not write to the administrators but did so by the end of the day. And like that, he wanted to use his teacher-esque power to his advantage.
Because the administrators have the power to do whatever they want, their decisions were set. They only looked at the situation because Neiley wrote them up. If he did not do that and he actually heard them out, there possibily would have been a different outcome.
Secondly, if she cheated "to maintain a particular image under stress", then why did she end of up with an A for the semester in that class? A zero from that assignment did NOTHING, and someone who cheated would have been aware that getting a good grade on the assignment would bring their grade up. Mid-years was all that was important to her, and she still achieved a good grade despite that 0.
B seriously does have the will to represent her class, not just for college. Even with this incident, she has continuously desired to lead us all. As a trusted/true friend of hers, many look past her persistence and personality with what she has "done." And to anon3 who said she is the "worst prez", try running for Senior President for once. You might get a kick out of that.
^^
well said both anon's above me
To further clarify on the misunderstanding, Mr. Neiley had extremely ambiguous directions. He let the students self-choose their groups to research information for an assignment on the computers. They assumed that since they were to research together on the computers, they were working in groups. Later, he said "you guys need to turn in your own individual copy." They thought they had to turn in an individual PAPER copy, not knowing if was for individual work. Thus, because of working together on the computers, they could get other people to join and do the same assignment. There were no specific directions written on the hand-out for the assignment.
In addition, there was another person in the class who misunderstood the assignment as "group work." She received a zero because she thought her partner would turn the work in for her.
^ to the anon above me: the phrase you are looking for is "would have" rather than "would of." That's just improper use of the English language. No hard feelings, it's just a pet peeve.
Anyhow, good cheaters don't get caught in the first place.
OKAY I'M BACK.
ayy mr. graffiti
what exactly are you trying to say in your statement "Anyhow, good cheaters don't get caught in the first place."
are you saying that B is cheater, but just a bad one? B/C if you are...me and you are gonna have some problems.
BUT if you meant that in a good way, then we're cool.
"Later, he said "you guys need to turn in your own individual copy." They thought they had to turn in an individual PAPER copy, not knowing if was for individual work."
That's the part where you raise your hand and ask "do you mean all of our answers should be different, or that we need to turn in individual copies of the same thing?"
With that said, I do think it's completely ridiculous that she got suspended for what was obviously an unfortunate misunderstanding, and its quite a shame that she can't do something that she really cared about anymore. I mean yes, they should've just asked for clearer instructions, but the teacher shouldn't punish them for his own lack of clarity.
I just want to say this isn't an isolated incident. B cheats/cheated A LOT and hadn't been caught. She did in my Calculus class last year all the time, and even in that class I would see her copying stuff for other classes. I just want to say, she's not innocent.
I think I speak for both Tinted and myself when I point out that he and I neither accused nor impuned B in any way through our posts. If you reread them, you'll notice the usage of "if" and language denoting hypothetical possibilities.
I talked specifically about facets of the discussion, but discussion does not an accusation make.
^ I think whoever that was who went psycho, he or she just has some issues with the situation?
Makes me think that maybe B was actually guilty, as defensive as people are getting .-.
maybe people who care about B are defensive for her, because we know that what happened was an honest accident, and don't want anyone thinking otherwise
hey, mr./(ms.?) ALLCAPS-- swearing is for fuckers. So calm down, and stop bitching at Tinted; at least he's using proper capitalization.
I won't pretend to know the facts on this situation, but let me just say: I dislike the creeping definition of "cheating." It seems like, recently, "cheating" and "plagiarism" have become synonymous with miscitations and misunderstandings (like apparently B's was). If B was copying answers or truly attempting to inethically boost her GPA on the project, that's one thing. If she didn't understand the directions, that's another.
And hey, anonymous under tinted. I've gotten straight A's (okay okay I got a single "B" in popescue's french IV last year :D) every year at Enloe. Does this make me prone to cheating, suddenly? Do I suddenly have a "motivation" to "maintain my image?" What about all the other honest people in the school who do well, academically?
It doesn't sound like she really cheated to me.
But if she had, I would have no problem with taking away her presidency.
Cheating is deplorable.
All right, I know I'll catch some flak for this, but her it goes anyway.
To those of you bashing Nealy, stop it. If he suspected cheating or had any evidence of copied work, the Enloe Teacher's manual requires him to report it to administration. He did not have a choice. If he covered it up (regardless of guilt or innocence) he could have lost his job.
As for the psycho capitalizer, you are a complete moron. If B turned in an assignment that had been copied or was the same as another person's assignment, it was cheating. There is really no way to escape that fact. The whole 'ambiguous directions' aside, cheating is cheating regardless of assignment size. And help me understand something. Are you defending cheaters that "cover up" their decidedly immoral actions? Because you are not going to "get far in life" going psycho on anyone who doesn't share your personal philosophy in life.
I support B, and do not believe that any intentional cheating took place. But the fact remains that cheating did occur, and punishment had to be handed out accordingly. If the school allowed pardon for those involved based upon grades, GPA, or extra-curricular involvement, they would basically be giving the top 25% at Enloe free reign to cheat and blame it on a "misunderstanding". It sucks that B was put in this situation, but what resulted is pretty much strictly defined by Enloe and Wake County.
Bring on the psycho rants, my piece is said.
okay so here are more of my psycho rants. AND IF WANT TO USE CAPS I FUCKING WILL.
first of all, why do you think i went "psycho?" DUHHH b/c all this shit you guys are saying about B being a cheater and how B's punishment is justifiable, is totally WRONG. I know the story better than all of you guys and just the mere fact that you guys are basing your thoughts off of the little information you know about this incident is COMPLETELY WRONG. It bothers me that people who don't even know what they are talking about are saying ridiculous things, and thats why i keep coming back and posting. If you have something against B, thats fine, but how about growing up and actually looking at the situation from ALL perspectives before you start saying stuff.
And one more thing: B did not copy anyone's work for this assignment, all of the group members worked together and thought that they had to have separate copies of the assignment turned in. B knows and accepts her fault of misunderstanding directions, but just the punishments and administration actions being taken place is ridiculous. You know what's even more ridiculous?...the REAL cheaters NEVER get caught, but the INNOCENT always do...
I was in that calc class too, and she would ask a certain guy to show her how to do part II of Dr. L's tests during physics, and she would just memorize the answers...
As someone who had Letarte, let me enlighten you to a certain fact:
Letarte encourages that in his classes. That isn't cheating.
^He does NOT encourage just memorizing the answers that another person worked out. He DOES encourage understanding the concepts through groupwork.
True, but if he honestly expected everyone to work everything out for themselves, he wouldn't give tests the way he does.
How would you know whether or not somebody memorized something?
You have to show your work on Letarte's tests, so how could someone possibly memorize all of that work? B obviously DID understand the concepts.
Tinted you are obviously without scruples, encouraging gossip and stealing books after class. You are one of those people that gets joy out of seeing someone getting in trouble. All the people that are in defense for B know that she is not a cheater and that this is unjust, otherwise it would not have caused such a big commotion. You will never be happy in life and your personal hatred against Student Council is what is driving you to instigate B. Grow up.
Schadenfreude
...this is unjust, otherwise it would not have caused such a big commotion. You will never be happy in life...
Other than that little bit, I agree with everything you said. I'd describe myself as a pretty happy guy overall.
Heh, oops. I copy-pasted the wrong little bit. I meant:
You will never be happy in life and your personal hatred against Student Council is what is driving you to instigate B.
I know the story better than all of you guys and just the mere fact that you guys are basing your thoughts off of the little information you know about this incident is COMPLETELY WRONG. It bothers me that people who don't even know what they are talking about are saying ridiculous things, and thats why i keep coming back and posting.
Then why don't you, in your infinitely knowledgeable position, enlighten all the rest of the unwashed masses. You complain about us working off limited knowledge, yet you don't bother to correct our misconceptions.
If you have something against B, thats fine, but how about growing up and actually looking at the situation from ALL perspectives before you start saying stuff.
I know and respect B, and I am sure that she knows I support her. I have nothing against her. In fact, I am honored to call her one of my good friends. I am trying quite hard to remain detached and neutral in this whole thing, because I don't know all the information.
And as far as looking at it from all perspectives goes, you come up lacking. Have you stopped to consider that there may be some details that you are not aware of? As much as we abuse them, the Enloe administrators are not enemies of the students. This kind of action is not undertaken lightly or rushed to a hasty decision. As I've said, I support B as a STUCO member and an upstanding person. But I feel that for the decision to be made there must have been a compelling reason. So next time why don't you think about "ALL perspectives" before attacking the rest of us?
The Enloe administration is not the enemy of the student, I agree.
But Neily is like the Professor Snape of Enloe.
Enloe administrators are not enemies of the students.
That's a damn lie and we all know it.
Enloe administrators are not enemies of the students.
That's a damn lie. You know it, I know it. Everyone knows it.
let me start off by saying, i know who the psycho all caps anon is just from the way you type, and i now have an even lower opinion of you than i did before, psycho bitch.
anyhow, we're sort of ignoring all the other students suffering from similar situations here. she was not the only kid to get suspended in this situation, yet simply because "she's our prezzz yo!" we're going to defend her alone.
also, there are other respectable student council kids who are getting kicked out for other crimes they did not commit (im not taking a stance on whether or not B did)but seriously, she is not the only one affected by this.
in short, quit bashing neiley and b, and student council altogether, and let's look at the big picture.
I appreciate those who are aiding this discussion by providing clarity and differing rational viewpoints.
I do no appreciate those who are detracting from this discussion through mudslinging, poor manners, and outright lying.
I'd like to think that that statement rings true for more than just me.
As far as a personal response goes, I'd like to echo neutral here: what about the other kids? What are the repercussions for them?
she should not have cheated, its her own fault.
^And where are you basing that she "cheated", from?
I cannot claim to know this story any further than all of the people on Tangst have told it and therefore cannot formulate a good opinion one way or the other; however...
Psycho capitalizer, you aren't doing a very good job getting your point across or convincing people to listen to you. You should try not to threaten people; it would work much more.
You say that you "know the story better than all of you guys" and "just the mere fact that you guys are basing your thoughts off of the little information you know about this incident is COMPLETELY WRONG." Please, if you know it so much better, do tell. And as for telling people to look at the story from all perspectives, maybe you should try it too.
As for "you heartless IDIOTS are not gonna get anywhere in life accusing people of shit that they didn't do", well, you aren't going to get anywhere in life railing on and insulting people who don't agree with you.
Also, I couldn't help myself when I read: "are you saying that B is cheater, but just a bad one? B/C if you are...me and you are gonna have some problems.
BUT if you meant that in a good way, then we're cool." Sorry. It just cracked me up.
I don't think we're ignoring the other girls accused of cheating.
Well, actually we are. But that's not to say that they got what they deserved - they certainly did not, and they were dealt an injustice as well. However, since none of them (I believe) are in student council, and certainly none of them are on executive council, their issue is not as pertinent. They've already "done their time" so to speak. Their troubles are over, it looks like.
Well, except for the fact that they have to explain to colleges why they got suspended for cheating (when they were really the culprit of nothing more than a misunderstanding).
It's kinda like the Duke Lacrosse case. The only thing those boys were guilty of was extremely poor judgment. I believe (basically) the same thing applies here.
And one more thing: I am quite impressed. It has been a very long time since we had a topic with so many comments. And to think, I was starting to think that Tangst was getting a little boring.
But Neily is like the Professor Snape of Enloe.
So can we only hope he avada-kedavra's Cochran and she falls off the Middle East Building?
PS, gotta claim credit here: Yeah, I was the OP. POPULAR POST TIMES A BILLION. TANGST POINTS FOR ME! :D
i think the snape/cochran comment already maxed ur tangst points
Bhaahahaha, Hannah, I love you. (Anonymously, of course.)
The Middle East Neilly/Cochran duel is the most fantastic analogy I've heard in a while.
Oy. Now I wish when I posted that I did it under my name so I could actually take credit for that.
I guess you'll just have to believe me that I made that post.
First of all I would like to apologize for my loudness on this issue, but it is because I am a person very close to B who knows everything that has happened and what she has gone through.
I will now tell the entire story:
B, V, and V were called outside the classroom by Neily, who immediately confronted them about an assignment they had turned in weeks ago. He said things like "you thought you could pull this one over", "you think i'm stupid and don't read things students turn in", and "you don't take me seriously." All three were in shock and were speechless because until that point they did not know that Neily wanted everyone to just RESEARCH TOGETHER, not write up the stuff together. B, V, and V had written up the assignment together during the 3 days they had time to work on it in class. They were on the same computer but misunderstood the part where Neily said that he wants everyone to turn in their own copy. The girls took own copy for individual paper copy, so they just turned in essentially the same 3 papers. They had gone home and finished up the rest and turned in their own "copy". All the wording was identical. The assignment was intended to be an easy test grade to help those who needed a boost in the class.
So of course these girls did not have any intentions on cheating, nor did they know before they turned in their assignments that they had done something wrong. It was only brought to attention when Neily had confronted them.
In the confrontation, Neily said that he would call the girls' parents, give them a 0, and notify NHS. He said that he might let them redo the assignment and that he was not going to administration. The girls had nothing to say to him because he was not ready to listen, he said things like, "don't make excuses", so when the girls were speechless, he took it for their confession statement. That same day when he called their parents he told them that he already turned in a writeup to Vogle.
Vogle could not attend to the girls so Ms. Moore did. She heard them out, but stated that she had to base everything off of the evidence. And the evidence was the papers, which had the exact same stuff so it was cheating. She assigned the girls 1 day OSS. When she had to issue the OSS, the girls were of course sobbing and she could feel that these girls had character. She stated, "From the 1 day that I know you ladies, I could immediately tell that you are sensible young ladies." So the administration knew that the girls had not intended on cheating, but because Neily wrote them up, they are bound to act upon it.
Now Kingsberry the student council advisor had to issue a removal of B because of the student council constitution. She had heard B out and personally went to Vogle to make sure she would listen to our side. Instead the girls were called by Ms. Moore. Kingsberry searched the constitution to see if there was anything else B could do, and it said that there could be an appeal made to the principal. Of course B carries out the appeal to Cochran and gets called to Cochran.
The first thing Cochran says is, "What makes you think I would want to overturn this removal?" She was such a bitch and B tried to explain herself about the misunderstanding, but Cochran was like I am going to stand behind my administration and my teachers and can't let you continue on as president because that is sending the wrong message. Whether you intended on it or not, cheating is a big problem at enloe and if I don't take a stand, then students will think they can get away with it. Cochran also noted something about B's schedule and made some snotty remark about how she could see why B would want to cheat because of the stress of an all AP schedule. She basically is making an example out of B and using her position to do so.
She left B to cry in the conference room and didn't even give her a tissue. She is the biggest mother fucking bitch in the world. She wants to stand behind her admin and teachers and screw the school, and thats exactly what she's doing.
I hope this explains why I am soo upset that people say negative statements about B because after reading this story, you know that an injustice has been made to the girls.
OH and for the person that says they know who this is, they don't, but I'm B's sister, who has seen her spend sleepless nights crying about everything that has happened all because of a misunderstanding.
Thank you for explaining. I think that probably meant a lot more to most of us than did the loudness and insults. It also made me much more likely to listen to you.
IM ANGRY ABOUT SOMETHING , ANGRRRRYY.
^Would you like to further explain what exactly you are angry about?
Wow, that's not funny, because when I think about everything the psycho capitalizer said, I understand why she was so angry. She was probably just sticking up for someone she loves very much.
I dont see what Cochran did wrong in this. You cant explain yourself out of everything... and cheating is a big problem at Enloe. An example did need to be made.
Now, Im sure you in your AP world wish it was one of the base population or some honors kid who was made an example, like someone you don't know. Someone you could sneer at and think upon the depravity of the masses. BUT it was one of your own. Its so sweet to me.
I don't know B personally, but Im happy it was someone from the AP crowd who got suspended. They deserve it.
In order to present a more neutral, alternative perspective from the rampant accusations prevalent thus far:
It sounds like this is an ugly situation for everyone connected to it. From what I'm hearing through this discussion and others, the system is broken in some places, but without a particularly clear or simple remedy.
Cheating (in the truest sense of the word; eg. a crutch on a test) is a serious issue, of course. Sometimes people get caught, sometimes they don't.
Plagiarism is a *highly* serious issue, and that is the point at stake here. If you look at it from the perspective of the staff, it's a terrible situation.
Mr. N has the authority and respect of a faculty member. As such, he is charged with the responsibility of making the "right decision" when it comes to discipline. Regardless of his decision, the fact is that he is the faculty member in this situation, while B and the others are the students being charged.
From the standpoint of the staff, it is a matter of the word of a few students against the word of their teacher. When a situation like this involves a question of the students' integrity, it is nigh impossible for outside mediation to support their complete innocence against a fellow staff member.
As noted, many staff and administrative members sympathize with the students. I am certain that Dr. C also sees the myriad flaws and issues with this case.
However, Dr. C is a very good administrator and leader. She likely knows the problems that could stem from failing to support her staff in a question of integrity.
Regardless of opinions that Dr. C (or any other staff) may hold for the students or this situation, she is stuck between a rock and a hard place, so to speak. It sounds like the administration and staff may be doing the best they can to minimize the effects in this situation.
One thing that comes to my mind is the extent of the repercussions. For instance, do the students involved have the offense of plagiarism written into their files, or is it being handled as a minor disciplinary infraction? This particular issue is perhaps the most serious point. Regardless of beloved StuCo positions, a charge of plagiarism is serious, and would affect the admissions decisions of colleges.
The situation may seem injust on many levels, but at this point, I think perhaps the course of action most valuable to the students involved is to discuss with the administration the repercussions, and the extent to which they will affect the academic records of the people involved.
"didn't even give her a tissue" ?? what has that got to do with anything??
i would say it shows a lack of compassion, and identifies C as a cold, heartless, b.
B (lowercase b meant something completely different) honestly has integrity, and from what I hear, if you talk to the administrators that handled the situation and Neily himself, who apparently loves B still, they would all say that B is an honest person, and an honest mistake. Rather then the suspension, and the removal from her position, I'm more concerned about the apparent lack of sympathy/affection/compassion that C has towards her students because she showed no faith in the goodness of her when others, including Neily , did
I really wish that everyone would stop being unreasonable when it comes to Dr. C. I have no love for the woman (as pretty much everyone who knows me can vouch for), but this is excessive.
She is an administrator. There are rules she has to follow. If Mr. N brought the situation to her attention, instead of taking care of it himself - within the classroom - she has no choice but to issue the suspension. That's county, and probably even state, policy.
Having said that, I am on the side of B and the two Vs. I do think it was a misunderstanding of directions. Everything has been blown way out of proportion.
Here are two groups (1, 2) in support of B. And I'm sure there will be a petition going around school tomorrow, so sign that too.
Instead of continuing to blast others for being "unreasonable," can we please try to take our own advice and be reasonable? Flaming people who don't read or even know about this site is counterproductive. Help her and the other girls out by supporting them, not getting angry at their opposition.
^Thank you.
No, this post is not a record. The one about gay people last January had 80 something.
does it matter if B didn't cheat on this assignment when she admittedly cheated on other stuff?
sithgirl, you beat me with your note. I was going to yell something akin to "GOODDDWIIINNNNNSSS LAAAAAAWWW." :D
Haha, Godwin's Law strikes again.
I hereby declare this topic Closed.
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